DUST Search - 1.7 respec

Tebu Gan wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Heavy Salvo wrote:

WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing.

well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective?

I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue.

BS

Dont pin your indecisiveness on me because you are ******* useless

I havnt even mentioned about redesigning the tree, CCP has already done that if you paid attention which you obv ******* havnt

The vehicle tree has been completely redesigned if you didnt notice and because of that its more of an SP sink which means my 18mil into vehicles now will not go as far as in 1.7 so hence a full respec is needed

Anyone else who is skilled into even 1 part of the vehicle tree for just say a ADS might aswell give up not and go into full infantry like a few are doing because its more of an SP sink

Why the **** do i even bother, CPM blames anyone but themselves for being ******* useless

You make a valid, solid point. They did not inform us that they were making an even bigger SP sink. So now I will be half as effective with a tank as before. Or I can drop those tank points and go full on infantry, and be effective. But what I can't do is drop the infantry (which was a secondary path I took after getting my tanks to where I wanted them) and go full on tank.

It's a good point you make Takahiro. I've just read the rest of your posts and I'm right there with you. Vehicle users are getting the short end of the stick, and AV classes, and other infantry are getting beat with that stick.

This particular CPM Iron Wolf Saber, has been known to be illogical when something comes up that he can't full grasp. He has berated the community he is supposed to serve with oh wow, you are stupid, that can't work and I won't listen to you anymore rhetoric. Clearly, this fella has yet to reach adulthood. A small child could see the logic in what you were saying. This isn't the first time Iron Wolf Saber has acted the part of a total douche, and it won't be the last time. I for one am sick and tired of this CPM and his trolling.

It's clear, that he can't grasp the whole of what people are trying to illustrate. Instead he says, "oh great, now Sink is ruining this conversation", and because you used that word, you must be talking about redoing the skill tree. Tha ****. Are you really that stupid.

You are the one actually taking our ideas (that you can't begin to grasp) to CCP??

It's time you step the hell down buddy. You hurt most conversations you go into. Not the people but you Iron. Then you start threads ridiculing the people who have serious issues because you failed to grasp what was being said. And here you are doing it again. Well buddy, no help from me this time. I was pissed the first time, and held my cool. Now **** it, you clearly are not worth the time.

A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.


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Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 103	Posted - 2013.11.29 03:14:00 - [1] - Quote Ah well with the new thread posted in regards to what is being removed/compensation for said removed items and how the respec is going to work it looks as though once again the full respec has been shotdown, regardless we do still have time before the vehicle respec is implemented and I for one am all for a full respec, I have both a devoted Vehicle character and this infantry character with AV weaponry (swarms and AV nades) and to be quite frank I do see how a full respec could potentially unbalance things (tons of consistent PCers specing into FOTM and then crying en mass when its nerfed & the few who simply reinvest the points to improve their current setups crying about the huge number of FOTM players) but then again even if you dont do the respec once the FOTM is nerfed the people who put the points into it when it became available or just recently got to the point where they had proto will cry out when its nerfed although in smaller numbers. No matter what you do, they are going to get upset and people are going to leave or simply stop playing religiously, its almost impossible to be a "devoted" DUST fanboy. hmm I guess I didn't really bring up any REAL pros to balance out the cons but there really aren't any... CCP is stuck in between a rock and a hard place but for those of us twiddling our thumbs and sighing in disappointment everytime the newly released gear we speced into gets nerfed to hell, a full respec or the option to buy one would be a godsend. A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 105	Posted - 2013.11.30 20:15:00 - [2] - Quote WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 105	Posted - 2013.11.30 20:16:00 - [3] - Quote Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? Seeing as I'd like to know exactly what your opinion is on the matter before you just start blowing off what people have to say. (my bad didnt mean to double post ) A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 110	Posted - 2013.12.01 04:23:00 - [4] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Honestly you would be better off getting no respec. I reason this because......you should go by the logic "if you can use it now, you should still be able to use it after patch". I never understood why you guys want a respec when you could potentially get free SP. CCP has changed the skill tree in EVE many times, and they always end up giving away millions of free skill points to players. If you get a respec, you give away all those potential skill points. You say the grind will be longer......THAN WHY are you advocating for a respec. Lastly, respec should be monetized the same as boosters. You plug it into a skill you dont want and it lasts for however long you pay for it. Think of it as a negative skill boosters that takes the skill points out of a skill and allocates it back into your pool at the same rate you earn passive SP. I say montoize because there will always be a push and pull of FOTM and the next nerf, it mixes up game play and thats just how the game remains fresh. "Potentially get free SP." I understand you're saying this goes on in EVE however speaking for a majority of the people I play with on DUST ....what is considered common place there generally has little to no bearing in DUST, not saying I don't value you're point but I have not seen it hinted at or said that in place of a respec we could be given "free sp" which could potentially be a good alternative but a few questions come to mind seeing as how EVE sp accumulation works and DUST sp accumulation works I cant really wrap my head around how getting free SP in eve works and how it could be implemented into DUST, 1. isn't SP just a value tacked onto your character (increasing values the higher the skill your training) that when added up add to the value of your character should you ever choose to sell it and also forces you to purchase higher quality clones to add another element of risk to the game, being the loss of trained skills if you do not have a high enough quality clone to retain your total SP? 2. if the latter is true then how does giving "free sp" to EVE players translate to DUST, I couldn't see giving mercs hundreds of thousands or millions of SP to mercs a good thing, only worsening the gap between newer players and vets. (raising the bar for vets in pc making it more difficult for newer players to reach the total SP they need for a corp to feel comfortable putting them into a pc) 3.I agree there will and always has been a certain magnetism to FOTM whether in the endgame aspect (PC) or simply wanting to PUB stomp more efficiently and giving respecs to people with 10s of millions of SP only to allow us to better allocate it and enhance our already favorite builds is unfair to those people with just the minimum SP required to get the gear they need to compete who even after a respec must either pull away from the endgame scene to put points into what they consider fun and grind away for months until they have it perfected enough to compete with the latest FOTM or put everything they have into the newest FOTM and deal with the hate that goes hand in hand with it. 3(Addendum). and tbh I wanted to make a point of how a respec would benefit people who invested SP into the new content simply to have something new to use but this falls under the "For" section IWS brought up earlier that being "players who are bored with their current fits." but it seems to me a better idea would be to add another group to that section, those being the competitive scene (endgame,pc, whatever.) vehicle users who (may not have happened to some but I had first hand experience with this) were urged by their corpmates and CEOs/directors to invest points into an infantry suit in order to cut costs in PC and add more versatility to their repertoire, although personally I had my own tanker and decided that in order for me to fully grasp how to build and run the vehicles provided to us I would have to forego the competitive scene in order to keep from outside influences persuading me to invest SP in places other than my Vehicle tree to benefit the corporation as a whole. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. For Players are bored with their current fits. Some have made mistakes Players are feeling left out because they may have made the mistake of speccing into infantry when vehicles was their real calling. Against Free Candy Syndrome - the idea of a free respec at the time of anything gets nerfed, this behavior was well established back in beta and there are plenty of people who are very hard at letting go. Future Prospects - In combination with FCS this will hurt any potential to monetize the and automate the system if it ever gets developed on because it was something offered regularly for free and now has to be paid for. Buy 1 get 2 free is now buy 1 get one 1 free type of backlash. Notation See how 0 of these points have to do with the horrible tree design? First off I'd like to apologize for being so rude in my last post and thank you for still posting regardless of that. After reading through this thread a few times and considering what I already know and how I feel about the respecs I see where the full respec does butt heads with the potential sales of full respecs for AUR and how giving them out was and still is a problem both in how well the respecs are handled ( the incident with people going hundreds of million negative with the last respec) and how once they are given out players expect it to happen again and again and where eventually having it available for sale could result in a negative response from the community (assuming full respecs are--- A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 110	Posted - 2013.12.01 04:39:00 - [5] - Quote jeez this is turning into an essay! (given out on a regular basis before it is given a cash value) so going back to Aura's input in regards to how EVE handles changes to the skill tree is there anyway to use a different method to A.Familiarize the player-base with new content BEFORE they "waste" SP ex.The distribution of the black eagle suits and its BPO weaponry,while it may or may not be considered new content it was a great way to introduce players to a new dropsuit/playstyle concept with no risk to them. B.Find a way to console players already upset at their previous investments getting nerfed only to have their most recent investments also nerfed (FOTM QQers). ex.The SP events, something around this idea at the time of the update or possibly the day of and a few days after in which SP gain is increased dramatically in order to allow access to new content earlier AND inevitably lead to bugs being identified and resolved quicker and feedback on new content coming in earlier and in larger numbers. honestly I think the best way to go about this is to find a new method of cushioning the blow so to speak of nerfs/new content, seeing as continuing on the path of respecs not only hurts the player-base but the developers future plans for the respecs. I understand this is not only going off-topic for my replies but for this thread entirely BUT I do feel it is a step in the right direction albeit one CCP seems to have already made and we(the players) refuse to realize. A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 111	Posted - 2013.12.01 18:13:00 - [6] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. BS Dont pin your indecisiveness on me because you are ***** useless I havnt even mentioned about redesigning the tree, CCP has already done that if you paid attention which you obv *** havnt The vehicle tree has been completely redesigned if you didnt notice and because of that its more of an SP sink which means my 18mil into vehicles now will not go as far as in 1.7 so hence a full respec is needed Anyone else who is skilled into even 1 part of the vehicle tree for just say a ADS might aswell give up not and go into full infantry like a few are doing because its more of an SP sink Why the do i even bother, CPM blames anyone but themselves for being *** useless You make a valid, solid point. They did not inform us that they were making an even bigger SP sink. So now I will be half as effective with a tank as before. Or I can drop those tank points and go full on infantry, and be effective. But what I can't do is drop the infantry (which was a secondary path I took after getting my tanks to where I wanted them) and go full on tank. It's a good point you make Takahiro. I've just read the rest of your posts and I'm right there with you. Vehicle users are getting the short end of the stick, and AV classes, and other infantry are getting beat with that stick. This particular CPM Iron Wolf Saber, has been known to be illogical when something comes up that he can't full grasp. He has berated the community he is supposed to serve with oh wow, you are stupid, that can't work and I won't listen to you anymore rhetoric. Clearly, this fella has yet to reach adulthood. A small child could see the logic in what you were saying. This isn't the first time Iron Wolf Saber has acted the part of a total douche, and it won't be the last time. I for one am sick and tired of this CPM and his trolling. It's clear, that he can't grasp the whole of what people are trying to illustrate. Instead he says, "oh great, now Sink is ruining this conversation", and because you used that word, you must be talking about redoing the skill tree. Tha . Are you really that stupid. You are the one actually taking our ideas (that you can't begin to grasp) to CCP?? It's time you step the hell down buddy. You hurt most conversations you go into. Not the people but you Iron. Then you start threads ridiculing the people who have serious issues because you failed to grasp what was being said. And here you are doing it again. Well buddy, no help from me this time. I was pissed the first time, and held my cool. Now ** it, you clearly are not worth the time. Validating the fact that the soon to be implemented vehicle skill trees increased SP values are ridiculous, Yes hes blowing off what their saying, but hes trying to discuss JUST the respec whereas as hes already mentioned and you should be aware of the vehicle skill trees issues cant simply be fixed with a full respec and would require a full redesign of the vehicle skill tree WHICH IS WHY he is refusing to discuss it any further, while your opinions and points are valid could we please just focus on the SP reset and/or ideas for a different method? A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.